I understand what modes are, but I’m not sure if I should learn them as separate positions or how they relate to the major scale. I’ve seen diagrams showing 5 positions for each mode, but I’m unsure if that’s the best way to approach them. Should I learn each mode individually or is there a better way to think about them?
99% of the time, thinking of modes in relation to the major scale is the most useful. For example:
C dorian is C major with a minor 3rd and minor 7th.
C phrygian is C major with a minor 2nd, minor 3rd, minor 6th, and minor 7th.
C lydian is C major with an augmented 4th.
If you know the major scale, each mode is just that scale with a few notes altered.
@Torin
Yeah, I like thinking about modes in relation to the major scale, keeping it simple:
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Major modes: Ionian, Lydian, Mixolydian
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Minor modes: Aeolian, Phrygian, Locrian, Dorian
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Ionian is the normal major scale.
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Lydian is the major scale with a raised 4th.
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Mixolydian is the major scale with a lowered 7th.
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Dorian has a natural 6th.
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Aeolian is the normal minor scale.
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Phrygian has a flat 2.
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Locrian has a flat 2 and flat 5.
So, just notice the changes and try playing between them in the same position to hear the differences.
@Winter
I think there’s value in thinking about them in order:
- Lydian is the sharpest mode.
- Ionian is major.
- Mixolydian is major with a flat 7.
- Dorian is minor with a sharp 6 (or Mixolydian with a flat 3).
- Aeolian is minor.
- Phrygian is minor with a flat 2.
- Locrian is minor with a flat 2 and flat 4.
Ionian to Aeolian are the most common, so start with those.
Both. I like to think about modes in two ways: Tonality and their relationship to the key.
- By their individual tonalities.
Play each mode in the same key to hear how they differ. Each mode has its own unique sound. Group them by major and minor keys based on the 3rd. Knowing your intervals helps. For example, if I play Dorian instead of Aeolian, I know I’m playing a major 6th instead of a minor 6th, and that gives a different feel.
- By their relationship to each other in a single key.
If you stack modes in one key by their scale degrees, you’ll see how they relate. C Ionian, D Dorian, E Phrygian, F Lydian, G Mixolydian, A Aeolian, B Locrian. They’re all made from the same notes, just starting at different points.
Keep practicing. I think a lot of guitarists get confused by mixing up these two ways of thinking. We don’t have to worry about specific fingerings like horn players do, so it’s easier for us to see the half steps on the fretboard.
@Luca
This is the best way to go. Learn the 5 positions for each key (G is a good start, but that’s another story).
You’ll learn the sounds of each mode, the finger patterns, and you’ll open up the fretboard. Practicing them diatonically gives you more flexibility. You can still practice the individual sounds of each mode by playing in one mode at a time (G Ionian, A Dorian, D Mixolydian), but learning how they relate to each other is much more useful for understanding music.
Looking at how each mode compares to Ionian (major scale) or Aeolian (natural minor scale) helps you grasp the differences.
I haven’t worked with modes yet, but I like Stitchmethod on YouTube. He has a playlist about modes that you might find helpful:
I’m currently learning modes and have been writing them down in a Google Doc:
Major
- Ionian: same as the major scale
- Lydian: raise the 4th
- Mixolydian: flat the 7th
Minor
- Dorian: flat the 3rd from Mixolydian
- Aeolian: flat the 6th from Dorian
- Phrygian: flat the 2nd from Aeolian
Diminished
- Locrian: flat the 5th from Phrygian
I also memorize the steps for each scale. The major scale (Ionian) goes: Whole, Whole, Half, Whole, Whole, Whole, Half. Lydian changes the first half to make it: Whole, Whole, Whole, Half, Whole, Whole, Half. And it continues like this for the other modes.
For me, it’s all about the relationships between chords and sounds, not really intervals. I spent a lot of time working on triads and how chords relate in a key.
I can understand the theoretical idea of modes, but practically, it’s about the choices you make and where you are on the fretboard. For me, it came from trial and error and listening to the sounds that I was creating.
I spent too much time trying to jump between modal patterns, but learning triads helped me focus more on the sound. I’m still learning, but this approach works for me.
There are many ways to approach the instrument. You just need to find what works for you. Learning songs, playing daily, and working on ear training is key to unlocking everything.
I’m going to say that learning modes might be one of the least useful skills for an intermediate player. If you’re into blues-rock, focus on Mixolydian and get comfortable with it. There are tons of online resources for that.
Learning songs, understanding riffs and chord changes, and being able to play a strong solo are more important when you’re gigging.
@Whit
It really depends on what this person wants to get out of guitar. If they want to learn modes, let them. We don’t decide what’s best for their musical journey.
Avery said:
@Whit
It really depends on what this person wants to get out of guitar. If they want to learn modes, let them. We don’t decide what’s best for their musical journey.
It’s not about being on different islands. Modes are often learned too early by students who don’t know the basics like the notes on the fretboard, triad shapes, or how to play a song through. The issue is usually not modes, but the foundation that’s missing.
We’re not on separate islands.
Actually, outside the basics, we are. You assume OP doesn’t know the basics and are projecting your own goals onto them. Maybe they are ready for modes, and maybe not. But your assumptions could be wrong.
@Avery
That’s a harsh way to say it.
Regardless, I still think discussing modes is a waste of time for most beginner to intermediate players. Many professional musicians don’t even know or use modes but still make great music.
There’s that story about Steve Vai learning from Satriani, where Satch told Vai, ‘Don’t come back until you know all the notes on the fretboard.’ It’s a shame guitar teachers are expected to be endlessly informative without guiding students effectively.
@Avery
I know my triad shapes, fretboard notes, and rhythms. It’s just the approach to modes that’s tripping me up.
A good way to practice modes is by playing the major scale starting from each note (D to D, E to E, etc.) so you can hear how the modes fit together. Also, practicing each mode in the same key (C Ionian, C Dorian, etc.) helps you feel the different sounds. Once you get comfortable, you’ll notice how each mode has its own vibe.